Patricia Calnan talks to Police Sgt. John Dale and his wife Mrs. Betty Dale.

In the next part of its series on Racism in Bermuda, The Royal Gazette will examine the role race plays in education in Friday's newpaper.

Emphasising that they are normally "very private people'', the Dales were initially reluctant to even entertain the idea of talking to The Royal Gazette about their marriage.

The next day, however, Sgt. John Dale telephones to say that he, an English-born Police officer and his wife, Betty, a black Bermudian, have talked it over and decided that "if it assists racial problems in Bermuda, we'd be glad to try and help.'' As the interview progresses, they both express the view that race is talked about "far more'' than it used to be. Says John: "I think that has stirred up a lot of unnecessary problems. It's good to be aware that a problem exists, but I think there should be more of a sense of `live and let live'.'' Married now for 14 years, both insist that since the day they met, they have never experienced any racial problems: "Not with our families, or our friends, in Bermuda or overseas. Never, ever. What surprises us,'' admits John, "is the assumption that there would be a problem. We met, we fell in love, and we are still in love. We still walk down the street hand in hand and I'm not conscious of anyone looking at us. Maybe they do, I've no idea.'' "If I look at someone a second time, it's because they are attractive, or interesting in some way,'' Betty interjects in a gale of laughter. "If they're looking at me, I hope that's why!'' Educated at Berkeley Institute and at St. Godric's College in England, the former Betty Weeks worked in London before returning home. For the past ten years, she has been the manager of an exempted company, Paramount TV.

They first met in 1977, about four years after John had arrived here from England to join the Bermuda Police Service.

Out in Hamilton for the evening with friends, they met in a local pub. "I was with a friend from Canada,'' recalls Betty. "We went to the pub to listen to the folk singers -- not for the drinks! John and his friend offered us their seats as we walked in and I thought, `Oh, what gentlemen'.'' After meeting occasionally, "around and about'', John invited her out for dinner: "It was Christmas and we had dinner in St. George's and then went to the candlelight service at St. Peter's afterwards, and I remember that we held hands.'' Born in Lancashire, and serving with the Salford City Police for seven years, John remembers seeing the Bermuda advertisement in the local Police magazine.

"Just a day or two before, I'd been on duty in Manchester. It was a very cold, wet, windy night and I stood there, looking out over the docks, wondering where all the ships had been or were going -- probably to hot, exotic climes. So when I happened to see this ad for Bermuda, I wrote off at once!'' John, who was later given Bermudian status in his own right, adds: "I feel Bermuda is home now, rather than England.'' Was there really no sense of surprise from family or friends when they announced plans to marry? They look at each other, shake their heads and laugh.

"I think everybody was half expecting it,'' answers Betty. "John's the type of person who's easily accepted by everyone. My sister was my maid of honour, my parents were thrilled -- everybody loved him!'' "Still do, I hope,'' he adds. "I courted Betty for three years. We both had good jobs and we both had our own apartments. I bought the engagement ring seven months before I proposed. I had never been in love before, you see. It was the first time I'd ever told a woman that I loved her. I had to be sure, as I was getting on by this time -- I was 30!'' Recalling that the friends they were with on that first night ended up in their wedding party, John continues, "No, there were absolutely no problems in England about our getting married. I'd already taken Betty home to meet everyone -- I have a brother and four sisters. My parents came out to visit while we were courting, and they came out again for the wedding.'' That took place at St. John's Church, Pembroke where Betty's family have always been members, and where the Dales' children were duly christened and now attend Sunday School.

"We both wanted to have children,'' was the joint reply when asked if they felt this could have been a problem in a mixed marriage.

"I can honestly say I never worried about that aspect, even for a moment,'' says John. "To tell you the truth, I've never been bothered about what other people might say -- never really thought about it.'' Their children are Alexander, 13, now at school in Devon, England, and Adrian, ten, who is at Saltus Grammar School.

"I don't see my sons as being black, or white,'' he adds. "They're my sons!'' `It's the person who is the racist who has the problem -- not us' Asked what race he had entered for the registration of their sons' births, both say they cannot remember. John Dale continues: "If their race has to be classified -- and I'd prefer it not to be -- but if it's vital for Bermuda's statistics, for example, I suppose I would put `mixed' if there was a space for that. As far as I can recall, I think I put down `black' on their registration. I think my kids are quite happy, probably proud to be called black. Why shouldn't they be? They certainly have no problem with `identity'.

Alex's school in England is full of kids from all over the world.'' Only half laughing, he comments: "Actually, I've never, never had a conversation like this in my life before!'' "Maybe we are anomalies,'' muses Betty, "but if our children have ever had problems, they have never told us. We travel overseas, all over the place with them. We feel that travel is a real eye-opener and an education in itself.'' Apparently preoccupied by the question of the birth registration, she murmurs, more to herself than to The Royal Gazette , "I'll have to look at that birth certificate, because I just don't know what we put down.'' The Dales began their own travels with a spectacular honeymoon -- a trip round the world.

"We never had even one unpleasant incident,'' they insist. "We went to Europe, the US, the Far East,'' recalls Betty. "We were out walking one rainy night in Tokyo and we met this couple who gave us their umbrella to keep. We still have it, and we still keep in touch with them and their family. In Greece, we met some children who had never seen a black person before and they rubbed my hand to see if the colour would come off, but I thought that was rather sweet!'' They feel their own untroubled experiences as a `mixed' couple may well have been more difficult if they had spoken different languages, or were of different religious faiths.

"I think our attitude is that it's the person who is racist who has the problem -- not us! If anyone has felt they have `a problem' about our being married, they've certainly never mentioned it to us! We know lots of inter-racial couples but we don't become friends because of that. We make friends with people we happen to like, and share interests with,'' says John.

"Once or twice, someone has said, `What's it like, being married to a black girl?' My reply to that was that I don't see her as a black person, I see her as my wife. But I don't think I've ever got into a long discussion about it.'' The Dales love to entertain friends in their home. "I saw this picture of Sammy Davis Jr. once and there was this plaque on his door that said, `No matter what your race, colour or creed, you are welcome into this home as long as you have peace and love in your heart'. I've never forgotten that,'' says John.

He admits his job as a Policeman has exposed him to racial problems. "Just the fact that you're a Policeman is enough for some people. I've moved around a lot in the Police.

"Obviously, someone who is not white and a racist may behave in a racist way towards me. But racial incidents are few and far between. I think that once people realise that I'm not racist, that kind of antagonism tends to just disappear. On the job, I work in a multi-racial setting, where we're not white, we're not black -- we're blue, because we wear the blue uniform.'' On the subject of racism in Bermuda in general, John says: "You can't legislate people's minds! You can't send people to prison for what they think.

That's ridiculous! It's all a matter of education. If people here would just look around and smell the roses, things would be pretty good, I think. But it has to be a natural thing -- you just can't go round telling people, `You will not be racist!' I think there's a tendency now to use a racist excuse if things aren't going right.'' His wife agrees. "Yes, people say they didn't get this job or that promotion because of their race. What it actually comes down to, is jealousy, pure and simple.'' "As a family,'' says John, "we have to make sacrifices. Some people may think we are `lucky' when, in fact, we have worked very hard for what we have.

We are very blessed, but we do work hard and we pray that God will continue to bless us.'' The biggest racial problem in Bermuda, they believe, is a reluctance for either race to invite each other into their homes. Integration, they say, tends to be from 9 until 5, with little interaction after that.

"Racism begins in school,'' believes Betty. "It depends on what a child hears from its parents and family members, but no child knows racism until it is taught to be racist by somebody else. You have to look beyond the facade to see what is inside a person, get to know people -- even though they may look different from you.

"People make such sweeping generalities about race and different cultures and, when you think about it, that's really quite ridiculous.'' With their own children, "it's a case of `Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. That's the value system we have tried to teach our children.

"I have a feeling,'' she adds, "that people are going to say that our marriage is too good to be true! But if it helps explode the myth that black and white marriages are fraught with problems, then that's a good thing. We do have tiffs, but never, ever, racial.'' "It would be nice,'' adds John, "if Bermuda could turn around and tell the rest of the world, `We're not interested in all this racial strife. We are Bermudians -- that's all'. Wouldn't it be nice if every household chose a family of a different colour and invited them in for a meal? That would be food for thought -- but, there again, then they would probably be accused of tokenism!'' THE DALE FAMILY -- Sgt. John Dale with his wife, Betty, and their sons, Alexander, (left) and Adrian (right).