Q: We've just celebrated the 20th anniversary of the Human Rights Act. And the point was made by the Minister that it was an evolving act. Now there are people who are wondering why in 20 years, there hasn't been an amendment that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

A: Well first of all I cannot answer for 20 years - we have been in power for three years.

Q: Right, absolutely. Okay. So my question is then...

A: Yes, let me hear your question.

Q: Is there likely to be that amendment?

A: I can't answer if there is likely to be that amendment. But what I can say is the area of human rights, as the Minister said, is an evolving one. And I certainly know that the Minister and those concerned with human rights are looking at various issues. In fact I know that the Attorney General, I believe it was last year, maybe it was this year, attended a meeting on human rights. So I would have to find out where they are on that. But I certainly don't know in detail what is going on.

But I do know it is a constantly evolving area - I know that they are attending meetings where they are discussing human rights. I know that they are constantly looking at making sure that Bermuda is very forward thinking with our human rights. But in answer to Your particular question I cannot answer that. Certainly, I would have thought that, in terms of equity, that if you were concerned about the fact that for 20 years something has not happened, you would have asked people who were there for 17 of those years.

Q: Yes.

A: So I guess I would see you doing that and I'll make sure somebody gives me a copy of that one.

Q: I'll forward you a copy of it. But I have been asking. It seems that - my perception is that it's a sensitive issue and nobody wants to touch it - there's a sense that the church has a lot of power in public policy. That's not a question but...

A: No you're not asking a question. You made a statement - raising your voice at the end of a statement does not make it a question.

Q: Is that a fair comment on the way Bermuda politics has gone about its business dealing with issues such...

A: I cannot answer that question. You talk about Bermuda politics and it's clear to me often when you mention it that you're not talking about Progressive Labour Party Government - you're talking about someone else. And yet you want me to respond. You can. Our Progressive Labour Party Government's politics were outlined for you all to see in our platform and have been followed since then. I think they show that we are concerned about the social well-being of the country and of our people. Areas where there needed to be things done that's where we turned our attention. Certainly we haven't righted all wrongs and corrected all injustices in our three years. Nor should we be expected to - correct all our injustices in our three years. If you really want to know anything about the party, go and look at the legislation we've presented and passed from year one to date, and you'll be able to talk about (inaudible).

Q: CURE is very important to you...?

A: Why are you saying that?

Q: I'm making an assumption, actually. Is it?

A: Everything in Government is important to me so start there. So you can't single out one. If you want to single out any area of Government, everyone knows it's education. So don't single out anything else.

Q: Let's talk about education, then. Is there...

A: I'm not going to talk about education because we have a new Minister who is coming to grips with her new ministry very quickly and who has a number of ideas and plans.

Q: I just want to ask you simply - given the status of education now, a lot of teachers I've spoken to consider there's a crisis in public education. Is that over stretching the point?

A: Now you start with a statement and then you change it. Give me your question again from beginning to end.

Q: Would it be overstating the point to say that public education is in crisis?

A: I think so. Yes.

Q: Would you say... How would you characterise it?

A: You have to make sure everybody has the same opinion or the same definition for the word crisis. I don't call it a crisis. What someone else may consider a crisis I don't consider a crisis. So you can't have me comment on somebody else's feeling. You can ask me what I think but it cannot be a comment on what some other people think. You can ask me what I think but it cannot be a comment on what other people feel. Because everyone defines crisis differently.

Q: I am asking you what you think.

A: I would not define it as a crisis. I would not define it as a crisis. I am not responding to the fact that you said a number of teachers have said. Let's get that clear. Is that clear?

Q: Yes. Absolutely

A: So the headline's not going to say ‘Premier disagrees with teachers...'?

Q: No...

A: Because first of all one tends to have a different viewpoint when one deals with something on a day-to-day basis.

Q: Absolutely...

A: So I'm not arguing their viewpoint. I ‘m doing it from the point of someone who is dealing with an overall government. Would I say that it's in a state of crisis? I would not say so. And I would talk about why I wouldn't say so - not why somebody else says it is. And one of the reasons I don't say so is I know the different attitude to education that this Government has brought into the administration. And that's one of the reasons I say that. And that's an attitude of working with the teachers and working with schools to correct the remaining problems. We didn't find education in a 100 percent healthy state and then take it to where they're in crisis today. What we found was an education system where when we came in, hundreds of students were being suspended from school, fights were taking place down at the bus terminal in Hamilton, shoplifting was on the rise, store owners were complaining to the media, there was widespread truancy. all kinds of things. Now I happen to know from where I sit.

Q: Was it in crisis then?

A: I happen to know from where I sit that truancy is down, greatly, you got a statement on that. I happen to know that - I don't believe I've heard you say anything about the bus terminal in Hamilton and student fights for some time. Remember I don't read it so nobody's giving me any clippings to say this is the case, But I don't know about any store owners complaining about widespread shoplifting from students coming in their shops after school in their uniforms and doing things. I haven't heard about that. Are their still students who (inaudible), yes, we've not completed everything. But I happen to know by measurable standards there's been improvements. There's been improvements in attendance. There's been improvements even in the academic, based on the things that have been incorporated in the system. They may be tiny, little measurement steps, but it is progress nonetheless. And so, yes, if you want to call me a Pollyanna, then I'll be called a Pollyanna. I looked at what was and have there been improvements - are we all the way? No. We're not all the way. Do I think it's fast enough for people who have been waiting 20 years? Of course not. But is it the best that we can do? Yes. Because as much as I'd like to be I'm not a miracle worker. And I don't believe anyone is. But because we are approaching it from a very human viewpoint of trying to change what had been entrenched, and things that were widespread we have I think a realistic measure of how much progress we can make.

Q: Communications. You hired a communications consultant. Can you tell us what kind of results have been delivered ? or what kind of positive changes have been made generally...?

A: Well, it's still ongoing. It's still ongoing. I've told you that he's come to help us with the change we wanted to do concerning the Government and our communications system. We've had a review of that system. We have a plan. I don't think they have as yet hired a new director, have they Mr. Drinkwater?

Drinkwater: I don't think so.

A: I know they have a new plan. I guess, looking to staffing it up. You're not going to see, I don't think, the changes you're looking for until the department has been properly staffed to do the service that we expect. But do we have a plan? Yes.

Q: What are the key elements of that plan?

A: Off the top my head? I cannot tell you because I do delegate things and I'm not the one looking at all of that. Did I read it ? Yes. After I read it I passed it on.

Q: Did anything jump out at you?

A: No. Well what jumped out is it's where I think it should be - it's going to reflect the current communications arena, which is this electronic media - you'll all get your stuff digitally, I understand. So it's going to be a service that will service Government's needs but it also has to be realistic and be able to provide what is taken. I think, based on the assessment, that it was very much a department which was created in response to a no longer existing media situation, i.e. primarily press - print media. And I don't think it's been changed in its delivery from that time. So the change will be current. I mean telecommunications has changed a lot of things.

Q: A more modern...

A: I'm not talking about modern - in terms of being able to deliver what is realistic. In terms of being able to deliver what is realistic, in terms of being able to work with Government departments etcetera.

Q: Is there a problem with the parole board. What we're hearing is - and I haven't been able to get the Minister to actually respond to this.

A: Isn't the parole board new?

Q: Yes, it's fairly new but it hasn't met yet.

A: Yes isn't it new. It was just set up.

Q: In October...

A: Right. Didn't we just have a change in Ministers? Right. I don't know of any problems but I certainly know it's a new board that I expect to be set up and start to take effect. When all the boards normally do. So if you have information, and you want me to respond to you have to give me the information first. You can't ask me a plain question.

Q: I guess the question is it was expected that they would have met by now...

A: Oh no. Who expected that?

Q: Prisoners who are up for parole... and their advocates.

A: Sorry. Obviously, one would think that if you were talking to them you would say to them, yes that may have happened in October under the other Minister but also on October 29? I changed the Ministers so obviously there's been a change. And furthermore we also normally do boards in December so if you bring in somebody new to start in November then you do give them an opportunity to reflect on their post. So I don't know exactly what's happening. I would imagine if there was some difficulty then the head of the prisons would have spoken to his PS and then his Minister and they would have worked something out because prior to that you only had a Treatment of Offenders Board, you didn't have a parole board. And it was an attempt to make that whole system work better that it was set up. I'm sure that's what affected it.

Q: Absolutely - it makes sense now that we have an answer. But...

A: What you mean now that we have an answer? I could have thought of that myself. I could have said, ‘in October, wait a minute what happened in October? Ministers were changed'. Have you been called by the head of the prison to inform you, because Ministers are not dealing with everything. There are several ways for you to ask a question like that. And I certainly won't deal with it unless a Minister brought it to me.

Q: Well I guess it all boils down to communication and accessibility.

A: So you couldn't reach the permanent secretary...?

Q: I did. he never got back to me.

A: Then you should have faxed him the questions. You should have gone to GIS (Government Information Services).

A: Oh. Then you should have faxed him the questions. You should have gone to GIS... There are a hundred different ways. Let me tell you how to do your job...

Q: I've been all the different ways and...

A: You asked him the questions and he hasn't responded to your questions ?

Q: Yes.

A: I doubt it. You asked him the questions? I shall have to check. Mr. Drinkwater, you check on the PS. The P.S. was asked questions by you. You faxed the questions - to GIS ?

Q: No, on the phone

A: No, nonononono - No, no. You can't ask him on the phone. How do you know the person even took them down. Fax your questions. If he hasn't responded to you - I mean the man is busy. You will grant him that ?

Q: I appreciate that...

A: You will grant him that ?

Q: We're all busy...

A: But we're all busy in different ways. If you wanted an answer to your question, there are many ways you can get an answer besides having him talk to you on the phone. That's what I'm saying - I was thinking you wanted the answer. That's what I was saying.

Q: I did want the answer...

A: No I'm sorry. There's a difference sometimes between wanting the answer and wanting to speak to the person. I was assuming you wanted the answer. And so I was about to tell you how you could get the answer. But you wanted to speak to him that may be more difficult.

Q: Right. I guess my point was - I didn't mean that to criticise him - I think we actually have a very good working relationship. I have to say that, actually...

A: (laughs)

Q: We do actually... But my point was that sometimes - I wouldn't print it until I got the answers to the questions. I mean I wouldn't print questions without the answers once I know the answers are coming...

A: Isn't that unusual? (laughter)... Unique in fact.

Q: But my point is when the questions are unanswered for too long people do get carried away with their perceptions. Do you know what I mean.?

A; Well, let me say again - the first I heard of any difficulties with the parole board has been from you on this 20th day of December. It's the first I've heard of it. I would expect if there was a problem - as you said, that there was a problem - that the person immediately in charge of this area would have spoken to someone else who might have helped solve the problem that's what I would expect. If somebody has a problem they speak to who they work with to get the problem solved. Now if it's solved at that level, or if something else happens - it never gets to the minister unless it's unsolvable.

And if the minister gets to the problem, it's unsolvable... So all I can say to you is I've not heard of the problem (until today)...

Need I tell you your hour's up...?

Q: And you only gave me half an hour...?

A: Well you're definitely well over your time. That's right so are you going to say thank you Premier - for giving me an extra half an hour of your time?

Q: (to Drinkwater) Was that an hour already?

A: It is an hour. Half an hour is what you were told but you definitely were allowed an hour. In my mind I said..

Q: I do appreciate it...

A: So you won't have to search for any more questions.

Q: Can I just make one more point on that issue...? The delay may make sense but it's still a bit of a problem for people who are overdue for their parole... That's the only reason why...

A: I'm not...what did I say? I said I know nothing... Listen to me. I know nothing of the problem until you brought it up today the 20th of December.

(Tape turned off at this point) as she recounted her version of the line of questions on the parole board. Then “I see you've turned your tape recorder off and it should be on because this is important.” Recording resumes: That was question one - And I said I know nothing about it. Then you said ‘well the board's not been meeting'. Then I give you what I think is a logical answer as to why that might be the case based on the timing. And then you say well if the board's not meeting there are people who are up for parole and again - now I see the problem - that came in the third question. Right? After I've answered two before with no information. So I then tell you if there is a problem I would expect the person who is in charge of prisons who would know there is a problem or somebody from (?) services - whomever it is who knows about these things to have said to somebody higher than them who might be the P.S. that there is a problem... ‘where you aware that because this hasn't happened, there are two people or whatever the number is who are waiting on this?' Because I'm sure that the ministry would have found some way in which to deal with those particular matters so the persons were not hampered by the fact that the board was or was not meeting. Because before we had a parole board, people went up for parole didn't they? It went through the Treatment of Offenders Board. So I'm saying that a solution should be found so I would not assume because the parole board hasn't met that there was a problem with something else. I did not connect those questions in my mind. Right?

Q: Right.

A: So that's why I'm taking you step-by-step to what you asked. Step-by-step to what I answered. Because I answered you specifically what you asked.

Q: Right. No I realise that. I mean...

A: I'm just making sure you because I don't know what I'm going to read. Okay? (laughing). And I'm making sure that it says what ....

Q: Do you actually think you have to worry about what you're going to read?

A: Pardon.

Q: Do you consider you have to worry about what you're going to read?

A: No, no. I consider... I like to be reported accurately.

Q: Right..

A: And I don't like presumptions made when I answer a specific question and a presumption is made to something that was not asked. I wouldn't want the beginning to say ‘nine people are up for parole but they couldn't get out because the parole board didn't meet. And when I asked the premier if there was a problem she said no'. You understand ?

Q: Right...

A: That, while it's correct factually it misrepresents what I mean... And that's the only point I'm making...

Q: The assumptions, yes. There wouldn't have been that kind of background... I would have explained it to you... I don't expect you to...

A: Everything I do is based on experience, Ayo. I didn't just make up this

Q: I appreciate that...I do appreciate that...

A: And I'm not saying that you would. I'm saying I have had experiences so I've learned to... (inaudible)

Q: The reason I asked you was I was trying to get a sense of whether you were aware of anything?

A: And wouldn't expect to be unless there was a problem that couldn't be solved. They solve problems everyday you know.

Q: I'm sure they do.

A: (laughter)

Q: I have something from the newsroom to give to you for Christmas.

A: Oh you do? As long as it's not ticking - loudly. (laughter all around).

Q: It's just a little token of our appreciation for the job you do.

Madame Premier examines ‘Christmas antistress kit' and note listing its contents: an eraser “to make those little mistakes disappear”, a penny “so you will never be completely broke”, a marble “for those days when you are sure you've lost yours”, an elastic “to help you stretch beyond your limits”, a string “to hold it all together when it seems to be falling apart” and “a kiss to remind you someone cares for you”.

A: Lovely.

Q: Is it apt ?

A: Of course, I accept all gifts as long as they are given in the spirit of gift-giving.

(Thanks and goodbye)