Bermuda will encounter the same problems with a restructured school system if it does not recognise the ills of the old.

This was the warning stressed last week by retiring dean of the Faculty of Arts and Science at the Bermuda College, Mr. Bertram Guishard.

Both Mr. Guishard and dean of the Faculty of Applied Science Mr. J. Alfred Carey will be leaving the education arena this week after close to a century of combined service.

The veteran educators have seen many changes made to the public school system, including the integration of schools in the mid-sixties, the closure of the Bermuda Technical Institute in the early seventies, and the creation of Bermuda's only college.

And days before their retirement, they sat down with The Royal Gazette for a frank discussion about the past and future of education in Bermuda.

The men, who both taught at primary schools and the defunct Bermuda Technical Institute before the creation of the Bermuda College, said emphasis must be put back on basic education -- technology and the three Rs.

Mr. Carey recalled that students who left the Technical Institute, which was set up in 1956 as the first integrated education institution in Bermuda, had the necessary qualifications in academic subjects and crafts.

"But,'' Mr. Carey said, "it was said that we were preparing an elitist group of graduates.

"The Technical school always had the highest results in maths. So there was objection. Some people could not accept that a technical school could also be academic.'' Both he and Mr. Guishard agreed that the school produced students who were well-equipped for the real world.

Mr. Carey said most of the teachers and the chairman of the school's board of governors were not in favour of its closure.

"Unfortunately there is a tendency to think about the trades or technology as an after-thought in Bermuda,'' he said.

"And education will only get back on track when education authorities decide that the prime objective of education is to apply learning rather than accumulate it.'' But Mr. Carey said Bermuda did not need a new Technical Institute to do this.

"I don't think we need a new building, we just need to upgrade the schools so the so-called academic and technical subjects are taught side by side.

"I feel it would have been more economical to have Government build an Applied Science building at the college and work out a plan whereby middle school students and secondary school students could use the facilities.'' Mr. Guishard said the success of the new senior secondary school at Prospect will mainly depend on the person who heads it.

"The Bermuda College became an excellent school because people in charge of it emphasised excellence,'' he said.

Mr. Guishard, who is one of few educators having taught at every level of the school system, said: "We have a situation in Bermuda where teachers in general secondary schools are concerned because they feel their students are not getting into the academic programme at the college or Applied Science so they tell the college you've got to take these students.'' Noting that too many students left high school with little more than an elementary school education, he said: "Nobody has given students a real goal in general secondary schools. They come in the schools feeling rejected. And some teachers don't demand much because they think students will fight them.

"What we need is a little more drive at the lower end so students can accomplish more and when they get to grade 12, they will have a basic education.'' Mr. Guishard said the college gave all students that reached a certain level (about eighth grade) an opportunity.

"The college has set its entry level at the lowest point which we could and it has worked,'' he said.

But both Mr. Guishard and Mr. Carey made it clear that the college did not simply give (good) grades.

"We award them after students earn them,'' Mr. Guishard said. "And I think the college will continue that policy.

"So although we are at the bottom of the average group of (overseas) universities as far as acceptance (standards), when it comes to students' results, we're among those at the top.'' Mr. Guishard said the extra year of senior secondary education which is planned for the reformed system would also help students as "a stepping stone to move upwards'' even if they did not do so well before.

"We needed the six years in high school,'' he said, "because the old system of five years was done to produce an elite. We should have had six years (of high school) 20 years ago.'' Retiring at 68, Mr. Carey said he had not decided how he would spend his time.

But 65-year-old Mr. Guishard said he planned to write a book about education in Bermuda after completing a thesis on a topic he did not want to disclose.

"Saying what it's on may impede my progress,'' he said.

VETERAN EDUCATORS -- Dean of Bermuda College's Faculty of Applied Science Mr.

J. Alfred Carey (left) and dean of the Faculty of Arts and Science Mr. Bertram Guishard are retiring next week after 46 years and 49 years in education, respectively.