A.S. COOPER & Sons was established 110 years ago. It exists today as 17 satellite stores - located in Hamilton, St. George's, Dockyard and some of the island's hotels - which represent the Cooper family's hard work and determination and its legacy to Bermuda retail. Peter Cooper retired as the managing director of the company last month, passing the reins on to his son Somers. This week, he sat down with Mid-Ocean News reporter Heather Wood and photographer Chris Burville to chat about his years at the company's helm and how he intends to enjoy the extra time on his hands.

Q: How did you end up working at Cooper's?

A: As you know it's a family business. My father and my uncles were all in the business - one of my uncles actually went away and worked for Wedgwood in Canada. In fact he opened the Wedgwood offices for all of Canada back in the 1950s. I started working for Cooper's in late '55, early '56. I guess because of my father and his brothers all being in the business, it appealed to me as well.

Q: Did you go through any particular training or just learn along the way?

A: I went to the New York University School of Retailing. Part of the retailing course that I took put you in touch with some of the major department stores and part of the course involved joining the R.H. Macy Executive Training Programme as a trainee and as a student. They didn't give you all the responsibilities that you would've gotten if you were working there as a new person coming in, but as a student they gave you a pretty good overview of what was going on. And the other part of the course was go and work for what one would call a speciality store. A specialty store would be a store like Cooper's is today, specialising in either ladies' fashions or menswear or a combination of the two of those product lines. At the end of that I had to write an essay on the difference between a department and a specialty store - that was part of the course (and) that was my sort of launching into the retail world.

Q: Had you worked at Cooper's prior to that?

A: I worked for the store and for my uncles and my father as a young boy growing up - packing in the warehouse, doing everything from the ground up. And in fact one summer when I was older, I guess I must have been 15 or 16, maybe even 17, the warehouse manager was ill and had to take some time off. Because I was working under his wing they sort of put me in charge of the warehouse while he was off sick, which was a challenging thing for somebody of my age. However, it all worked out well. We had a good time and (the employees) helped me shine a bit. And so it went. I'd come home from school at Christmas time and get a job. I'd come home for summer holidays and get a job. And it was fun. I enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun and that launched me into thinking about being a retailer.

Q: Where did you start?

A: I got married and went off to the United Kingdom and in fact worked at the Wedgwood factory although it wasn't real, true work because what they were doing was actually giving me an overview of their operation. They paid me a salary of £7 a week - which was a big salary. I worked for them for about six months. I went through the factory from start to finish - from when raw materials came in until when the finished product came out the other end - and that was really an eye opener because of the craftsmanship and the craftwork that goes into producing fine china and giftware and all that sort of thing. And while I was there of course, I took the opportunity to visit all the other factories we were associated with and we were buying from. But Wedgwood was our major, major supplier. We were a very, very large outlet for Wedgwood in the Caribbean (region). In fact we were the first store in the Caribbean (region) to carry Wedgwood.

Q: At any point did you think you might not want to enter retail?

A: Nope. Never crossed my mind. I was enjoying it, my wife was supportive and it was fun. It really was fun. I think the fun part of it, if one can put a definition to fun as far as retail is concerned, was actually buying the product, seeing it sell and seeing the customer satisfaction at the end - that's the fun part about it.

Q: What was the business like back then?

A: When I first started working at Cooper's the tourist business was flourishing. The savings from (American) prices to Bermuda prices were enormous. You could save 50 per cent on Wedgwood china for instance, here over the Sates - it would pay for the Americans to buy it. They'd be fools not to - they'd pay for their trip over and over again by buying it with as much money as they'd save. It was a really, really big product line. It isn't any longer today I regret to say for very many reasons, but that was fun to me.

Q: What about the challenges in retail then, as compared to challenges today?

A: I think the challenges today in retail are far more difficult than they were when I was first in this business. The difference is that we don't have the tourist business today that we had then. The tourist business today is, as we all know, very much reduced in terms of numbers. And because the prices in Bermuda for European goods were so much better than the US it was a bonanza when I was a young boy. That's the only way I can describe it - as a bonanza for the visitors who came to Bermuda. Not just china and glass and woollens. Doeskin was a very sought after product in ladies' wear and menswear. There were the famous doeskin gloves that Bermuda became famous for and drove the visitors to buy and naturally, us to sell. That's been the big change in Bermuda's retail, the duty structure. We've always had a duty on all the products coming into Bermuda but it's been changed around a bit now. There's some more favourable duty taxes on commodities than there were in our days, but the US tax duty structure for goods going into the US was far more severe. And nowadays, I think the products that we sell here - wherever we import them from - the same products going into the United States, there's hardly any duty at all and in fact the duty on clothing coming from Third World countries, there isn't any duty. And so Bermuda cannot be as competitive as it used to be. That's why we've probably seen the large number of overseas buying that's going on today because the average customer feels that they can get a better buy in the United States.

Q: Is that the only real change?

A: They also talk about service. That's another topic altogether.

Q: Do you think it's worse in Bermuda than elsewhere?

A: I was just in New York. My wife was with me and we were in a store, Lord & Taylor in New York City - a big, big department store. My wife wanted to purchase a blouse. I took it from her and said quite loudly, "I want to buy this blouse. Is there anybody that wants to take my money?"

There were about three customers within earshot and they said, "You're so right. There isn't a salesperson on the floor". And there wasn't. A girl came out of the stockroom and she walked over and said, "Can I help you sir?" I said, "Yes, I want to buy this blouse but I can't find anybody to take care of me. I need somebody to serve me, a cashier".

She said, "I'll try and find one for you". And she did - but it took a while. This is absolutely true. I kid you not.

Q: What do you think about being the last man standing as it were? Of the three old Front Street retail giants, Cooper's is the only one that remains. It says something about your business leadership wouldn't you say?

A: That's very kind of you but you have to consider what caused all of that. My guess is, and of course I don't have any inside information, but my guess is, because (former H.A. & E. Smith's head) Mr. (Roger) Davidson said it publicly - it was either written up in the press or he said it on the radio or on the television, I can't remember - that if that merger (between Trimingham Brothers and Smith's) had not taken place, they both would have failed. That comment was probably very, very true. I don't think Mr. Davidson would have said that without having some truth in it. We know, from our own point of view, that the profit margins in retail in Bermuda are very, very minimal. When you have a running business cost factor, it's very difficult to control your expenses when it comes to staffing and paying duty and everything else and that's why I've said on a number of occasions that we're not on a fair tax system in Bermuda because retailers are paying the bulk of the duty upfront and there are other business that are not in retail that don't have this burden. And so therefore it's not in their tax system today. In the old days, when visitors were coming in - like I was saying earlier - and buying up all these wonderful European goods and taking them back to America and there was a bonanza for them - that was paying for all of that and everybody was quite happy to let it work that way. But when the tables started to turn, it wasn't there any longer in the sense of the tax system that we have today. In those days we didn't have payroll tax, in those days we didn't have to have health insurance coverage, we didn't have to have social insurance - none of those things. Those were not part of the burden of the retailers or any business for that matter. But the retailer has an additional burden and that is paying duty on all of its imports upfront - before they even put it in their warehouses, before it even leaves the dock. You're talking millions of dollars.

Q: Against that backdrop, what advice would you offer someone considering entering the retail business?

A: Look at it twice (laugh). Take a careful look at it. I think there's a lot of small businesses in Bermuda - and I'm sure they're quite successful - that are what one might call "Mom and Pop" shops. 'Mom and Pop' shops will survive, because they've got mom and pop running them and they're there 24 hours a day if they're open 24 hours a day. They're there to run it. They're there to see that everything is going all right. It's a small operation and they can afford it. But once you start to grow and you start to get more employees and your business grows out and you have a warehouse etc., your expense just keeps on growing. So a small operation, a small business, a niche business - I call it - will survive. But business is not easy in spite of the fact that Trimingham's and Smith's have closed. But are we surviving*?>* Yeah. And we're going to continue to survive - I hope. But retailing is not easy. It isn't like lots of dollars come flowing in overnight.

Q: Now that you've retired what are you going to be doing?

A: Well it's still early yet. I've only been retired since the October 1 and some of that time I've spent here trying to clear out my office and I haven't done that yet. We took a trip with one of our grandchildren, to Williamsburg and Washington D.C. - that took up eight days of my permanent holiday, if you want to call it that. And my wife and I spent another eight days in New Hampshire before we came back home. So half of October and half of November have been spent travelling. But that's not what I'm going to do in my leisure time at all. We do have a couple of projects on in the United States that will keep me busy for a while - not business, all personal. So I'm looking forward to those. And I think my wife is looking forward to me being more of a help to her in the garden. There are a lot of chores around the house that have been put off that I think I will get involved in. And we have a large family too. We have nine grandchildren - love 'em all and they love us I think - so with a large family like that I think we'll have a lot of fun.

Q: How do you feel about handing the reins over?

A: I'm happy to hand them over. My son Somers has done a fantastic job in the last couple of years - even before the last couple of years. He's been working for Cooper's now for seven or eight years in various facets of the business. The last two years Somers was very much involved in the new building. That was a big project for us, and a big project for him, but we've gotten through it now and the building is operating and the offices are operating and that's all pretty good.

Q: What's your greatest accomplishment at Cooper's? Would you call the new building your pride and joy?

A: I would say that, yes. I can't take full credit for it myself. I've been through two great accomplishments, one had very little to do with me and that was when we opened (the Front Street store in its present location) back in 1975. Cooper's had three different locations (before then). One where the Knick Knack company was on Reid Street, which is where Gibbons Company, (Capital G) is now - that was one store. The other store was up on the corner where Strands is, over behind (MarketPlace). It's an office building now on the corner, but next to it is Strands. That was our store. And then down on Front Street, where Butterfield Place is now, that was our store. So we had three locations. The Wilkinson family wanted to sell the property where we are now in about 1973. We bought that property and sold off the other two properties to pay for it and then we moved all of our businesses into the one building which was a brave move for Cooper's. I was part of that but (my role) was buying the china, glass and the giftware at that time. We took the building that existed and had to refit it entirely inside - I wasn't involved in that. But we soon had every department in the one building. And of course, the more recent history is, this is the newest one having taken the old building down and trying to diversify our interests. The family interests. The parent company which owns A.S. Cooper's, Alexander Samuel Cooper Ltd., wanted to be more diversified than just being in retail because retail is shaky. So that's why we tore the building down, put two floors of retail back in it and the rest of it is all office space. So that's the story behind that one. But yes, I would say that is my great goodbye, farewell, whatever you call it, to the company.

Q: You mentioned about your leisure time. Aside from helping around the house and all of that what are you going to do for enjoyment?

A: I'm going to get out on my boat more often. Hopefully start to do a little fishing again - not commercial fishing - just go out and enjoy myself. When I was growing up here I used to go out and fish all the time with my grandfather, which was marvellous. But I don't have that luxury anymore. When I first came to work at the store he would pull me aside and say, "Peter, you want to go fishing"? Which meant I had to go and get the boat, get the bait. I'd say, "Pops, I've got a job to do". And he'd say, "I'll take care of my sons, I'll tell them what you're doing for me". But I haven't done much of that (recently) so I'll try and do a bit of that - and yes, a little travel. Some people have projects. I don't have a real project - not yet anyway. Actually, I'll just enjoy being around home a little more often.

Q: You've worked at Cooper's for how many years?

A: 52 years.

Q: At the helm?

A: I think it was about 1980 when I was made managing director.

Q: Any particularly memorable moments?

A: We've had two fires. One of the fires was in March, 1969 and all of the merchandise had just come in - from the Wedgwood factories, from the Royal Doulton factory - of course building up for the spring and summer season. We lost everything. Everything. Including a collection of old Wedgwood that was stored over there. It used to be on display in our old store and we moved it out to make more selling space and put it in the warehouse and it got burnt. So we've been through some ups and downs but we are still here. We're grateful for that.

It's a different type of retail today. You've got to be right on your toes. It's very, very challenging. You can move your staff around so much better in a one-building operation department store type of thing but we're not a department store any more. We're a specialty store - stores!