"I would ask the Government to consider a referendum to allow the people in Bermuda to have a say in the number of Members of Parliament that will represent them.

"A constitution is an empty document without the consent of the people. I urge Government to have a constitutional conference, followed by a referendum.'' Deputy Premier and Finance Minister Eugene Cox said the fear expressed over the changes, which was mostly by white people, came from the racism of the past.

He said the whites in Bermuda were afraid that the PLP would do to them what the previous Governments had done to the blacks on the Island.

He said: "I went to all three of the public meetings and I think what I saw was the fear in people from racism in the past.

"Mr. Barritt has given the impression that this was in the past -- as though it no longer exists.

"I think Mr. Barritt is wrong. I think it still exists.'' "The white people, I felt, were fearful that what they did to us, we are going to do to them.

"But nothing could be further from the truth. We appreciate fairness and justice. We want to be tolerant. We want to be understanding.

"Usually the victim becomes compassionate. I'm telling you how the victim suffers and behaves. The victim does not want to hit out at you.'' He said soon after: "I lived through it -- I know. There are probably scars on me, but I know what I'm talking about.'' And Mr. Cox apologised if he came across as saying all white people at the meetings were fearful of racism. He said what he meant to say was that most or many white people felt that way.

The Deputy Premier said Bermuda did not need a constitutional conference. He said when the PLP was in opposition it took a 5,000-name petition to the UK Government about changes the UBP wanted to make.

But he said at that time the PLP were told by the British Government that the UBP had been voted in by the majority of people and they had been mandated by the majority of the Island to act for people. The PLP, he said, was told not to violate that.

And he said it was important now for the UBP to appreciate that the roles had turned, but the theory was the same. And he said the British Government would consider all the options with the same level-headedness as it had done before.

"We don't need a constitutional conference,'' he added.

And he said the former Government "had no intentions whatsoever of doing what was right in terms of bringing this country into line to democratise this country.'' He said the former Government changed the voting age from 21 to 25, preventing many young black and white people from voting. And they also prevented anyone with less than 60 assets from registering a vote.

And he claimed the UBP hijacked Government in the mid 60s when MPs decided to form an official political party in response to the formation of the PLP.

But he said the people had elected the members as independent MPs and therefore there should have been another general election.

He added: "That is why some of your supporters are worrying because they are worried that we will hijack the Government and impose ourselves on the people.'' Opposition MP Pat Gordon-Pamplin heckled Mr. Cox and said it was all in the past and it had already been sorted out.

Shadow Health Minister Kim Young asked: "What has this got to do with a constitutional conference?'' UBP MP Grant Gibbons said believed the "honeymoon period'' was over for the PLP in the eyes of many Bermudians and he accused Government of constantly living and talking as though they were in the 60s.

He said the people should be the ones to decide how many MPs represented them and how they were chosen.

And Dr. Gibbons said he felt many white people believed Government did not speak to them, but on y its black supporters.

He went on to say that he believed racism did play a part in Bermuda, but in a different way to ow Minister Cox saw it.

He said the white people were afraid to speak out against Government for fear of being labelled racist, and the blacks were afraid to speak against Government for fear of being labelled Uncle Toms.

But he said many people on the Island wanted the Government to slow down with their changes to the constitution.

He added: "People take comfort from process. If they understand it and have some sense of contrl of what is going on, they take comfort from that.

"I think this Government seems hell bent on putting through changes in a very short period of time.

"They keep saying its 30 years since change. It's not 30 years -- there have been a number of changes.'' And he said one reason why people were so concerned was because in February this year the Premier told the House the PLP was not planning any constitutional changes. Yet, he said, Government was moving pretty quickly towards them.

Dr. Gibbons said he was eager to see the number of voters in each of the constituencies be more even and he said he wanted a situation as close as possible to one man, one vote.

But he said: "But I think what we are concerned about is how we get there.'' He said Government had done nothing to explain why reducing the number of MPs would be more democratic.

But instead he feared it was an excuse to just increase the MPs pay.

The Shadow Finance Minister said one of his main concerns was that the Boundaries Commission did not have a wider enough remit to look at all the consequences of reducing the number of seats.

But he warned it would have a knock-on effect.

And he said voters should not only be able to choose who represented them, but also how many people represented them.

He added: "The best way for the voters of this country to have that say is with a constitutional conference and referendum.'' He said the size of Parliament mattered because it was the size that gave the public a wider choice.

And he said reducing the number of seats would make MPs less accessible to their constituents, would reduce the Government's back bench, which traditionally was there to keep the Cabinet in check, and he said it would also reduce the strength of the Opposition, which was vital in any democratic country.

Consideration had to be given to MPs becoming over-burdened, resulting Parliamentary committees failing to operate efficiently, and not least, to the problems of giving more power to a fewer number of people.

He said some people found it difficult to appreciate what reducing the number of MPs would do.

But he added: "Here's an analogy. Take our health care and say we are going to reduce the numbers of doctors, so you won't have the same numbers of doctors to choose from as you did before.

"Or what if I was to say you won't have the same number of schools to choose from to send your children?'' Works and Engineering Minister Alex Scott said white people were feeling frustration rather than fear.

"We may be witnessing for the first time a Government giving for the first time real representation, real black representation, and white people are feeling frustrated,'' he said.

The days were gone when white people could pick up the phone, call a Minister and expect the Government to jump.

"If many people are feeling uncomfortable, many other people are feeling for the first time in their life they are comfortable with the Government.'' Whites may no longer feel enfranchised "but it doesn't mean you are disenfranchised. We are representing people that were disenfranchised.

"When we talk about white fear, we are talking about white frustration. I can't call their mortgage. We don't have the infrastructure to cause fear.

"We do serve the entire community but that doesn't mean everyone is comfortable with the new Government. If they have fear, it is something they feel inside.' The Boundaries Commission would come to its conclusions using only data, not gerrymandering, and he urged the UBP not to "sow the seeds of fear''.

The Opposition agreed on one man one vote of equal value, so there was no need for a constitutional conference. All they needed was to examine the methodology.

"The Opposition is not resisting on the merits of the arguments. The Premier faced them to the point they realise its foolhardy to put up more subterfuge.

"They are arguing for their 15 minutes of fame so they can put it in their portfolios that they attended a constitutional conference,'' claimed Mr.

Scott.

The Boundaries Commission may -- though he did not know -- recommend full-time Cabinet ministers, who could devote themselves fully to the job.

He accused the media of "doing a job'' on the population for years, particularly The Royal Gazette , and he claimed it was no wonder people felt nervous because they believed what they read in the Press.

He claimed the media had to improve its "professional demeanour'' and be more responsible.

Shadow Tourism Minister David Dodwell said it was for the people, not the politicians -- who had a conflict of interest -- to decide how many MPs there should be.

Three public meetings were no adequate indication of how people felt about the issue and three months was not sufficient consultation.

The UBP did not agree with Government on everything. In addition, the public was still attending meetings, calling talkshows and writing letters to the Editor because it wanted information.

Referring to Col. Burch's reported comments on Friday that the Opposition "makes me sick,'' Mr. Dodwell said: "He represents a Government that says it is interested in dialogue and we are supposed to show respect. I can't.'' He said there was still time to press for a constitutional conference, and asked what was the hurry.

Mr. Dodwell cited a string of prominant public figures such as Sir John Plowman, Quinton Edness, Ann Cartwright DeCouto, Sir John Swan, Ian Kawaley, Gilbert Darrell, Gloria McPhee, and Peter Lloyd as stating either the need for a constituional conference, or much more consultation.

He said it was a "myth'' the Government was trying to perpetuate that support for a constitutional conference arose out of "white fear''.

A Bermuda Sun poll showed 57 percent were in favour, the story reading "black and white, rich and poor, young and old'' supported this. Of those, 81 percent were white and 47 percent black.

"If you listened to the Government, its 100 percent of whites and zero percent of blacks who want a constitutional conference. We need to blow that myth put out by Government.

"The results of that poll and the other comments (from Sir John Plowman etc) are the reason why we moved from no public meetings to three public meetings.

"The people are still asking questions. Despite the, how shall I put this, shortness of the Premier's answers (at the public meetings) people still wanted answers.'' Mr. Dodwell claimed the Premier was surprised and irritated that members of the public asked her tough questions.

"What we hear from the public meetings is people want more dialogue. If you have more understanding you have a little less fear.

"This Government could get buy-in from whites and those blacks concerned about no constitutional conference, if they held a constitutional conference.

What's wrong with a little more time?'' He pointed out the people in Barbados were to get a referendum about changes to their constitution.

Mr. Dodwell said the issue was not a political one, but instead one of process, and he warned Government that if it did not listen to the people, the people would ultimately vote with their feet.

Labour, Home Affairs and Public Safety Minister Paula Cox accused the UBP of being "dictatorial'' and she said the Opposition had lost all perspective on the matter.

She said: "I think the ditty I get from them (UBP) is `do it my way, or no way'.

"It doesn't matter that we are Government and that we have a mandate.

"This is about how to enhance our democratic process. We are gathering the information to make decisions. We want to arm, equip and re-tool the Boundaries Commission before they move forward.'' And she said the Government would be open to criticism if it began to throw around an estimate of the reduction in MPs.

Ms Cox went on to say if MPs, including herself, lost her seat for the sake of democracy then so be it.

She shares a constituency with Dame Lois Browne Evans and she said had no doubts that it was the Attorney General who would win the seat.

She said: "I know I'm her running mate.'' And the Labour Minister also deflected criticism over the process by which Government has consulted with the public by quoting from a book entitled Constitutional Fundamentals about the political format in Britain.

The book stated: "Governments have made many constitutional changes without inter-party agreement, and not merely without the recommendations of a Speaker's Conference but in direct contradiction of them -- as with the abolition of the City of London franchise and the university franchise in 1948.

"At best, the Speaker's Conference is a frail advisory mechanism, at the mercy of the Government of the day.'' She added: "If we really believe that our constitution and our system of Government should be responsive and responsible, and if we accept and are prepared to accept that there are some areas where our constitution is woefully inadequate, well let's bite the bullet.'' Opposition MP Patricia Gordon-Pamplin accused the Premier of being "arrogant and condascending'' towards people who challenged or questioned her at the public meetings.

And she said she was embarrassed by her actions.

But she also said she feared a one-man, one-vote system of single seat constituencies would lead to a misrepresentation of power.

She said there were jurisdictions with that system which had barely no opposition, despite gaining 30 or 40 percent of the votes because it was a first past the post system with only one winner per constituency.

She said: "We have failed to look at the experiences of other countries who have had the same policies in effect and they found them to fail.

"Is that the road we want to go down?'' And she said she was not against re-drawing the boundaries to ensure the constituencies were more equal in numbers, but said maybe Government should consider keeping two-seat constituencies.

Housing Minister Nelson Bascome said the changes were part of nation building to restore confidence to the Island.

The change from being a "subject of the motherland'' to being a citizen was an important part of that.

The public meetings and the high turn-out of white people were healthy, but Bermudians had not learned about their differences..

When he met Overseas Territories Minister Baroness Scotland at the Labour Party conference in England, she told him "Bermuda is the master of its own fate''.

Shadow Education Minister Tim Smith said constitutions were different from any other piece of legislation because they safeguarded the freedom of individuals.

He said it was a fundamental rule of politics that people didn't trust governments and that human beings were fallible. That was why constitutions were needed.

He referred to 23 constitutions from around the world and 19 of them needed a two-thirds majority to change the constitution, 7 needed 75 percent approval, and ten needed referendums. The numbers did not add up to 23 because some countries needed one or more conditions to be met.

Mr. Smith was accused by the Government of filibustering, but he countered it was important to learn from other countries.

He warned Bermuda was "setting a dangerous precedent if we pretend we are infallible. That is why we need a constitutional conference and a referendum so people can help us decide''.

In a reference to the Premier, he said he was "as frightened of the prospect of gerrymandering as Jennymandering''.

Eugene Cox Grant Gibbons